Some musing about the future of the service(Too much text but should read if you like the service):
I've been developing the service for about 3 years, I've done many features: we have 3 clients(iOS, Android, WEB) and backend to connect it all. The project is founded only on my enthusiasm and like many other such projects, It must choose to continue or not?
Tasks for developing become more and more complex and required much more effort from me. Some of them need more than 100 hours and I have tasks that'll take more than 2000 hours. I can't do these kinds of tasks alone. Now I spend about 3 hours a day on workdays and about 6 hours on the weekends. It became my second job(Thanks to my wife, son, and cat for the patience, I love you so much).
You must understand It can't last infinite and that situation has 2 ways: drop all or apply a more serious approach. Drop all means that like a cloud service SBL will be deleted soon after it. I don't want this end for my creation. To apply a more serious approach and build better service I need your support, I can't do it alone because of tasks too complex and don't see any sense without your support or participation. I need some changes in my life and soon, I can't mix work and SBL, therefore, the project needs its economy to pay for my time(to decrease my work time) or time of third-party developers.
From the beginning, I wanted to get the money for the project support from your donations(designed a box put some money into the tip jar), but It didn't work. I collected about 250$ for about two years, this is a funny sum that not enough for hosting payments. Many twitch streamers collect more during a day. Really if 1 from 10 users donate it'll be enough. I think it'll be the best way because many users need the app only a couple of times a year.
Every day about 2 thousand people using the service to design their boxes. I want to know how many users need in my service and want that I continue the development, the people who like what I do. The people who the service helps and makes their lives simpler. For that, I've added the subscription, which must help highlight these people. The development depends on the number of these people, I don't see any sense to continue without your support without understanding that what I do needs somebody. Thanks for all who already have subscribed you make that world better :)
The deadline for counting is the spring of the next year, I need to collect about 1000 subscribers to continue.
Why is the subscription? You can sell it for me using one payment method. No, I can't. Because it is not a finished result, not a standalone project this is a cloud service that can be developed infinite time and needs support every time.
Can I assist the service except for money? Yes, you can. And you in some cases will be taken into account like a supporter.
Will it be deleted if you can't collect enough users? No, I don't think. I've spent too much time on it to delete. I think the development will be frozen for some time or all the time if there not appear any reason to continue. I only will support it and don't let him die.
To the end of spring, I'll try to increase the number of plots, make the redesign of the site, improve the 3D box calculator, add support of passive radiator enclosures and maybe something else.
All who think that this service is very helpful and like what I do welcome to Patreon!:)
I appreciate all your comments or suggestions :)
I see where you are coming from. I must say that when i was making boxes for profit i would have no problem for having a subscription. Many of us make boxes for hobby and even though your site is very good the subscribtion is to expensive for 1 or 2 boxes a year. I think you have to find a middleground somewhere. I hope you will continue because someone else is likely to take your place on the market. There are no good ios apps on the market for boxmaking that i can find.
I am grateful to you and your family for your app for so many reasons. Your time and effort to make this not only accurate but easy to use is priceless. I want to help. I have tried to step up my efforts with answering questions in the discussion area in hopes that it may afford you time to work on other things or even spend with your family. I don’t know what I can do monetarily and wish there was a way I could fund your whole project. Unfortunately I recently retired and my income is considerably lower than when I was in the workforce. It would be a shame to see such a great app go by the wayside. I also feel like you are a developer who really cares about their creation and it shows in your responsiveness to the help questions, feature requests, and constant development. I can give my time and will do what I can to lighten any load, if that would be beneficial. Maybe there is something I can do to help keep this afloat until it becomes profitable enough for you to maintain its life and development indefinitely. Please feel free to contact me via email, text, phone, or whatever means you deem appropriate.
I understand that many users use only 1-2 times a year. Therefore I made the tip jar at the beginning. Something like designed the box put some money :) But people for some reason didn't do it :) I want to try to integrate affiliate program from Amazon or any similar. Maybe people will buy things by the link, and it possibly gives the service a chance to get rid of subscription.
Anyway thanks for your feedback. I appreciate any suggestions or ideas.
Thanks for the help :) Answering users' questions is a very nice idea to help the community.
That topic is not about the money at all. This is a hard and complex question. I wanna know how useful my creation. Money is only the measure of helpful and it also helps to increase the speed of development :) Another measure of how the service is useful maybe feedback. For example, users may write reviews, share their projects, discuss something, It all gives growing of the popularity of the service and motivates people to return to the site not only a couple of times a year. A big community gives a chance to find a sponsor or something like. Also, the activity of the users motivates me to continue the development :) As I said many times any who active in the community life gets a free version. I hope you understand what I saying about :) But I have too very low feedback from users and I think I make something useless and wasting my time or I doing something wrong. Also, I want to start big changes in my life in the next year as I said it all complex :)
Anyway, I appreciate your participation in the community life! :) I can give you access to moderation of the database if you have free time. The main goal is checking requests(adding manufacturers, speakers) from users.
If that will assist you then I will gladly help moderate.
I think your creation is very useful and maybe has not reached its’ target audience fully. I’ll begin linking the app/service in some of the popular audio forums and may generate some more users
I sent you some information to your email (that you had specified during registration). Is it actual? :)
I'll keep trying to support your work, but my income is not stable so some months there's just nothing I can give.
It is. The one with layinlo ‘underscore’. I’ll check it momentarily.
I only learned about this web site today, but it's more convenient than WinISD because of the ability to find drivers by box parameters. That was way faster than sitting on partsexpress.com and running calcs over and over looking for a good fit. I'll add some reviews of drivers I've used to help.
I also vote for passive radiator support. I did my first PR last fall and PRs are a black art voodoo science that's equal parts simulation and demon sacrifice.
Thanks for your reviews and activity in the service. I appreciate it :)
I think this program kan be more than a great help for many who whant’s to have a desent sound in the car i would recomend toenlarge the options a bit. Why not expand it for home listerernerners and hom theathre bassboxes, it’s a big diffrence in enviorment and the subwoofer must have diffrent volumes and very often diffrent T/S prameticscto fit in better, ti reach for a mutch bigger types of users, and what they want out of the radiators and passive elements that is a very efficent way to have a analbix wirh plenry of output in a snall cabinette, i build a lot of subwoofers sens i was about 18-45 yeras an i have a great deal of noledge ro sheer its not rhat hard to get a well sounding sub wirh rifhtvrype of gear, and the diffrexe is to combinate the rigtht kind of it ofcourse the anp and options of settings will do some things easyer but to make rhe best if without compromises tou hav to know what the gear can perform fir tou and witch naterisls is suited i use very often at least two diffrent materials thats have diffrent benefits but togerher they can perform extreamly good with brasing and diffrent types of solutionsvto get rid of resonace problems an give the easyest way to do somerhing better than one type of material, many diffrent positive sides in soundqualitt and minor oroblems sime boxes can be tricky tricky to calculate but math os not that hart, i think the brst is to sheer noledgledge to forward the our best results that we make and thats not to hard, and say why and gow things can be funktinal togesther, there are many types of that, and to get it all in one olace this os the right place
I think this service also will suit to home box design. Why not? Can you explain more? I think I didn't quite understand. If you can help with some math, it'll be great.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback :)
Thank you for the good work! really appreciated! I use you so now and then maybe once in the 2 years. I see the hard work you put in your project it is really improving, getting better and easier to work with.
But please accept that for once in the 2 years I cannot do a monthly subscription... I am glad to do a donation by paypal or buy you a couple of beers ;) I probably already have done it is there was a link... Please tell me how I can support your project without becoming a patron
Keep up the good work
Thank you for the feedback :)
I understand that many people use the service a couple of times a year. You can help by the moderation of users' requests to the database, create topics and answering to the users, share projects, write reviews. You can help to grow the community. If the community will grow it may help to find a partner company and get more quality AD and get rid of Google AD. And also it increases my interest in service development.
If you have free time I can give you moderator access to the database. Do you interest? :)
Alexksey your work deserves to be paid. Your product is more than valuable enough to sell access to. Please sell your product. I suggest you sell time limited access to SBL. Perhaps a yearly subscription. Demand for SBL will continue and so would subscription purchases.
I expect that most of your users are one time or occasional users. Asking for long term support from these users is unreasonable. I built one subwoofer and paid by supporting through Patreon for a while. I was more than willing to pay but not long term.
By selling short term access you would ensure a long term income. I want SBL to continue and be profitable. Patreon is not a good fit for every product/cause. Although the Patreon income model may be viable, do you want to invest the time in advertising necessary for it to have a chance of working? I do not believe your work is case for charity.
Each user of your product should pay. If someone is too cheep to pay let them use a calculator and pencil! Each user can afford to buy a speaker tools and wood. They can also afford to pay a small fee to use your excellent product! You have given much for free and we thank you. Now it is time for you to get paid for you work.
Thank you :) I sell month subscriptions via AppStore and Google Play. Patreon is for the WEB version. For the first time, I want to check is there somebody who willing to pay for this?
The main idea for the future is to have 2 versions first free for community and second paid for more advanced users. But I can reach it only if the community will grow up. Therefore the WEB version is almost free I want to test community. Soon I'll add something like articles for people who want to share their experience(You asked of something similar several months ago) and also couple features for the community. If it'll work and it'll help to grow up the community it can help to find another AD partner instead of Google AD and of cause it'll help to still the free part of the project.
The short time access is a good idea too, but I want to hold it to the end :)
Yes it is correct. I am back from a hiatus but ready to start things off full throttle ahead!
Hello, thanks for your help. I give you moderator access. How can I send you the link to the description? Please, read it before you start.
Very good Alex, but why dont you sell the program instead. There must be Investors villing to support that with what you have build so far. I would buy it just for my hobby. The best things are the speaker database connection. To be able to pick and choose between different units is perfect in putting facts to what you want. Need to say I have been doing this for 30 years.
There are a lot of different facbook Groups you could sell this to for example. It would also give you feedback to make it eaven better.
Who dares wins!
Hello, Thanks for your suggestion :) But I don't think that somebody will invest in such type of service :) I hope the service will be better in the future :)
Have you asked anyone?
Make a business plan and go to a bank and seek support.
Hey, brother. If you need support, I can offer free hosting for your project.
Thanks :) But the hosting isn't a problem the main problem is the time which I can spend to develop new features :)
First up I wanted to say thank you very much for all the effort you have put into this project. It has helped me greatly even though I am not a frequent user or much of an audiofile. I would hate to see this go away.
I'm currently a Pateron subscribber and am happy to pay for the pro version of the Android app (I see you've disabled the subscription option, so please let me know how I can pay for this assuming it's still an option).
Personaly I find the web app more usable for me as I find myself at a PC when looking to design a box and then export the drawings out so I can cut it on a CNC machine I have access to. I think you are on the right approach with charging a fee on the mobile app to be able to get the output files from a design, perhaps do the same thing for the website. Let users see the 3d renderd model of the box, but don't let them export the cut files unless they subscribe. i.e. don't let them have any free projects at all. Maybe reducing the subsciption model across the apps and website (perhaps the "typical?" $1.99 one off charge) will encourage a greater volume of users to actually part with some money and you will get a better overall return. I would think anyone using the app/website would see great value with a smaller one off fee and be happy to pay.
I think then you could simply tier the subscription level, i.e.
- Anyone can use the service (mobile or web) and create a single project through to rendered 3d design (no cut files)
- For a one off fee of $1.99, they can then see/interact with the 3d model and export the cut files. This would only give them the ability to run one project/design at a time, i.e. no project history/saving. So if they want a diffferent design/different speaker they have to start the design over again
- Patreon Subscription: $10 per month, gives the full featured service which alows for the saving/storing of multiple projects, plus access to feature requests, subscriber forum, etc..?
A slight tweak to those could be: tier one lets you get the cut files, but the app/web site is supported by advertising and has a slightly smaller feature set (No of speakers, box design?), tier two then removes adds and adds in more features, tier three saving of multiple projects?
Am interetsted to hear what you are now thinking about the future of the service now that it's roughly eight months after your initial post :)
After reading the whole thread, here are my 2 cents ;)
IMHO an acceptable usage/subscription model for most users can be:
- no driver database
- no save/load
- no 3D
- no cutting
- no wizards
- no import/export
- additionally allow save/load feature
- additionally allow database access but only the basic data (no curves, no reviews, no projects etc)
- additionally allow 3D
- additionally allow to use curves in the database (but no import/export)
- whole experience
I for myself would go with the $3/month option. This is what I can effort on a constant basis even if I do not built speakers that often.
I haven't found a way to upgrade on the web, but it did let me enter a 6th order bandpass, it's not showing right on the 3D renering, won't let me put rear port or sub where i want to, it has a side open, I must have entered something incorrectly :-/
Anyways, back on topic, adding an upgrade button directly on the home screen/in the menu may be helpful.
Hello. Thanks for your post and support! :)
Will be many frustrated users if I give them design 3D box, but close drawing and grant access only for money :) Because a user design a box spend time but in the end, he gets "1.99 to download plans". I think will be many negative reviews as a result. Also, 10$ in a month is a very high price for users, consider a narrow number of features.
But you are very close to real price, in general, we calculated the price to earn money and get investment this is at least 15$ in a month. But I don't think that somebody will pay such price for the service :)
Another way is to have more huge community and increase the daily number of users, in this case, I can try to find a partner to sell things over the site and apps. And we have a little price in subscription for PRO features and have a working free model.
What about the service? I have many ideas, plans but don't have enough free time :) I need to increase an income from SBL to leave my job(or at least decrease hours) and spend more time with SBL.